July 13

3 Podcasters Walk into a Bar EP 28 – The Lizard Threat: Hypocrisy and the Future of Oil and Gas


3 Podcasters Walk into a Bar EP 28 – The Lizard Threat: Hypocrisy and the Future of Oil and Gas

3 Podcasters Walk into a Bar EP 28 – The Lizard Threat: Hypocrisy and the Future of Oil and Gas

In this engaging podcast episode, Stuart Turley, Ray Trevino, and David Blackmon discuss the potential listing of the Dunes Sagebrush Lizard as an endangered species and its implications for the oil and gas industry. They shed light on the ESG hypocrisy surrounding environmental regulations, the impact of such listings on job opportunities, and the broader consequences of misguided policies. With a mix of insightful analysis and witty banter, the podcast highlights the challenges faced by the industry and the need for a balanced approach to environmental conservation.

Bullet Points:

– Discussion on the proposed listing of the Dunes Sagebrush Lizard as an endangered species and its potential impact on the oil and gas industry.

– Highlighting the ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) hypocrisy in environmental regulations and the overlooked environmental consequences of wind farms.

– Emphasizing the significance of job preservation and the potential negative effects of listing the lizard on employment in the industry.

– Critiquing the excessive legal battles and abuse of the Endangered Species Act by radical environmental groups like the Center for Biological Diversity.

– Urging for a balanced and informed approach to environmental policies, considering the economic and practical implications of conservation measures.


#oilandgasindustry #EnvironmentalHypocrisy #ESGRegulations #EndangeredSpeciesAct #JobPreservation #ConservationConcerns #LizardListing #IndustryChallenges #EnvironmentalBalance #PolicyImpact


Highlights of the Podcast

The guys are back at it today.

00:00 – Intro

01:52 – Talks about David`s Article: Biden’s war on oil and gas shifts to a Permian Basin blizzard

08:51 – Talks about Blocking Out the Sun

10:31 – Talks about the Dunes Sagebrush Lizard Notice to proposed listing and a 60-day public comment period

14:22 – When we’re talking about the animals that the wind industry kills, we should also talk about the birds

17:37 – Lithium mining operation out in Nevada being placed on hold by U.S Fish and Wildlife Service for 4 years now because of the claims about the so-called endangered buckwheat

20:35 – Talks about the Center for Biological Diversity using Endangered Species Act to stop any Projects or any human Progress

24:00 – What’s coming around the corner this week for Ray Trevino and David Blackmon

26:12 – Outro


With 3 unique personalities, backgrounds, and one horrible team sense of humor, it makes for fun talks around the energy markets.

David Blackmon is a Forbes author and currently writes Energy Absurdities of the Day. He has several active podcasts with ….. His industry leadership is evident, but a dry, calm way of expressing himself adds a different twist.

R.T. Trevillon is the podcast host of The Crude Truth filmed in Fort Worth Texas and runs an oil and gas E&P company. Pecos Country Operating has been in business for ….years and has a constant commitment to all of their stakeholders and is actively working in this oil and gas market.

Stu Turley is the co-podcast host of the Energy News Beat Podcast. While Stu is a legend in his own mind,

[email protected]




Other Sandstone Media Energy Podcasts – Check them out! Sponsorships are available, or get your own produced by Sandstone Media.

David Blackmon LinkedIn

DB Energy Questions 

The Crude Truth with Rey Trevino

Rey Trevino LinkedIn

Energy Transition Weekly Conversation

David Blackmon LinkedIn

Irina Slav LinkedIn

Armando Cavanha LinkedIn

Follow Stuart On LinkedIn and Twitter

If you have any questions, please reach out to us. We want to answer all questions, and if you have what it takes to be a podcast host and you want your show reach out.

Also, sponsor slots are available. There is excellent reach with the four podcasts.


DB Energy Questions 

David Blackmon LinkedIn

The Crude Truth - With The Rey Trevino

The Crude Truth with Rey Trevino

Rey Trevino LinkedIn

The Energy News Beat Podcast

Stu Turley LinkedIn

Video Transcription edited for grammar. We disavow any errors unless they make us look better or smarter.

3 Podcasters Walk into a Bar EP 28 – The Lizard Threat: Hypocrisy and the Future of Oil and Gas


Stuart Turley [00:00:02] All right. Hello Everybody Welcome, Do you ever have that Uncle just kind of frightened the whole family. Every time he started telling a joke and he said these 3 people walk into a bar. I happened to have two of the mother podcasters that frighten everybody when we say that.

Stuart Turley [00:00:24] Welcome to the three podcasters walk into a bar. My name’s Do Turley, president, CEO of the Sandstone Group. Let me introduce the other compadre there, Ray Trevino, RT. He is a big dog over there at Pecos Operating, and he’s got his own podcast, The Crude Truth, Welcome.

Ray Trevino [00:00:44] Oh, thank you, Good Morning, Good Evening, Good Afternoon thank you all for listening to another episode of 3 podcasters walk into a bar. I, I thoroughly enjoyed doing this with you two gentlemen it is a blast. So be sure it’s all our listeners and viewers out there be sure to Like Subscribe and leave us another 5 star reviews. And please ask us questions so that the next gentleman, David Blackmon, can answer for you.

Stuart Turley [00:01:11] David is a Forbes contributing author, I mean he’s got his own substack he’s on 2 other podcasts. He drools a lot when he goes to the Permian because he’s been around for, you know, you and Moses were buddies so.

David Blackmon [00:01:27] It’s a desert out there, man everybody’s drilling in the Permian Basin it’s hot.

Stuart Turley [00:01:32] Welcome, David. And we are going to have a blast I’m going to go ahead and kick this off. David, I absolutely love your substack I mean, everybody needs to Follow you, Subscribe smash that Subscribe button and today, your Forbes piece was [00:01:51]Biden’s war on oil and gas shifts to a Permian Basin blizzard [5.5s] there is a lot to this story.

David Blackmon [00:02:01] There is. Yes.

Stuart Turley [00:02:02] It is unbelievable, but there’s two things I’m just going to bring up, ESG hypocrisy is in regulation legislation through regulation and ESG and investing hypocrisy. This story covers a lot tell us what you’re thinking.

David Blackmon [00:02:27] Well, when I was writing that one, I was thinking, I’ve been dealing with that lizard for a long, long time. The Center for Biological Diversity first proposed to have it listed, and it’s just for those who do not know. It’s called the Dunes Sagebrush Lizard it is all over the Permian Basin. It’s everywhere there’s millions and millions of millions of these lizards they’re everywhere first of all.

David Blackmon [00:02:54] And the Center for Biological Diversity understands that and so they proposed to have it listed under the rubric of the diminishing habitat rubric that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service started using about 40 years ago in its enforcement of the Endangered Species Act, which, by the way, I highly respect and believe the Endangered Species Act, as it was written, is a wonderful law that had very noble goals, and if it was still enforced as written, it would still be a wonderful law with noble goals.

David Blackmon [00:03:29] But this lizard CBD sought to list this lizard because they knew that if they could get it listed as an endangered species, they could almost shut down the oil and gas industry out there, the Permian Basin. So for the last 21 years you know, they have been browbeating the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to listed as endangered, even though it’s clearly not an endangered species in any real way, shape or form.

David Blackmon [00:03:59] 11 years ago, 12 years ago in 2011, during the Barack Obama administration, the state of Texas, the industry, the environmental groups and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service all agreed to a conservation plan for this lizard in which oil and gas companies, when they’re going out to build a location, have to do surveys for the lizards and be sure not to disturb their nests if they’re present and and a set of other restrictions on their operations that they you know, it’s been very successful. The industry has invested probably $100 million by now and protecting this lizard and and it’s well protected the lizards everywhere folks, you run over them on the highways when you’re driving out there, your cat eats them for lunch if you live out there.

Stuart Turley [00:04:50] And rattlesnakes.

David Blackmon [00:04:51] Yeah. And and so ride rattlesnakes. I mean, they’re the main probably the main food for rattlesnakes out there in the desert. But but anyway, U.S. Fish and Wildlife so the Obama administration over the Biden administration has been looking for ways to kill the Permian Basin, and they haven’t been able to find one because there’s no federal labs out there, at least in the West Texas, part of the Permian.

David Blackmon [00:05:15] So, you know, when they hold up federal lease sales, it doesn’t impact Texas. It impacts New Mexico side, but not. All right. And last year, if you remember, they floated this trial balloon at the EPA that they were going to hold this sparsely populated part of the world. They were going to pretend it was in violation of ozone mandates by the EPA.

David Blackmon [00:05:39] Well, there’s not enough people living out there, not enough traffic, not enough activity to really scientifically justify that finding. So they’ve given up on that. And now they’ve decided to pursue this endangered species listing for an abundant and plentiful and well protected lizard. And that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

Ray Trevino [00:06:09] Well, I’ll tell you this you know, the moment I saw this, I just, you know, shook my head. I can’t believe it it’s it is truly like you just said, David. It is another way to attack, to more importantly, shut down and I won’t say that again to shut down the Permian Basin.

Ray Trevino [00:06:28] I’ve had plenty of opportunities to be out in West Texas and you’re absolutely right. You run these things over with your vehicle, you see running around across these roads all the time this is nothing as as as Hillary would say, this is a nothing burger, okay? There is truly nothing there these animals are these reptiles, I should say, to be seafood are more than bountiful out there there is no need for them to be ordered endangered list.

Ray Trevino [00:06:57] And the fact that there are over the fact that we’ve probably spent an estimated over $100 million as an industry to protect this lizard already, I think already shows what we’re doing, more importantly, to protect and conservation wildlife throughout the world. And, you know, I want to let Stu kind of jump in here on the hypocrisy of that right there, if you’d like to.

Stuart Turley [00:07:25] I’m going to do my imitation of what was at large this drives me nuts I mean, we’re sitting here, we got all them windfarms off of the coast. We’ve got hundreds of whales, dolphins, porpoises dying because of all of the anchors out there.

Stuart Turley [00:07:51] Okay. Where was Save the Whales? Okay. How come I had an interview and you two guys are being introduced to Dr. Patrick Moore, Greenpeace. He covered it beautifully when he was out there trying to save the whales on a Zodiac. Holy smokes, That man is man tastic.

Stuart Turley [00:08:14] Now, where is the ESG hypocrisy when everybody goes, well, it’s for a wind farm we’re killing any of you where are they? Hello! The other piece of this is what about the ESG hypocrisy? Last year, BlackRock lost $1.7 trillion. That’s a T even. I can’t count that high.

Stuart Turley [00:08:44] And when you sit back and think about this, ESG investing has ruined the global economy. Now, we the Biden administration, has come out and said, you’re ozone layer, dude that was fantastic. When you sit back and kind of go, they’re going to try to fix the ozone last week, David, didn’t they put out this thing saying they were going to try to block the sun out and go this kind of thing? Yeah, Hypocrisy.

David Blackmon [00:09:19] Yeah, that’s that’s a real harebrained scheme there we’re going to well, of course look, I mean, I think it’s by now an established fact that we have have had for over 20 years now efforts to at least experimental efforts to block out sunlight with these what they call Kim trails. I mean, there’s films all over the Internet of these things.we all know they exist and they’ve been experimenting with this for a long time.

David Blackmon [00:09:51] So now, yeah, you have the White House and European Union now talking about formally pursuing programs to block out sunlight to address global warming. And, you know, the unintended consequences of trying to do that potentially are just catastrophic. So I, I you know, but this is the kind of harebrained stuff you get when you are enacting government policy based on what is a religious exercise and that’s what the climate alarm movement is globally and. You know, it’s a really scary time.

David Blackmon [00:10:31] But back to this lizard. You know, they’ve got a 60 day comment period now that what was issued Friday in a big Biden administration document dump on the the night before holiday weekend was a notice of proposed listing and then you got a 60 day comment, public comment period.

David Blackmon [00:10:53] So anybody anybody in the United States could file comments in favor of or opposing this listing and at the end of that comment period. Then the Fish and Wildlife Service could potentially just issue a final listing decision, or they could modify their their rationale for the listing and re re propose and then go through another comment period.

David Blackmon [00:11:21] So this thing could move very quickly if it does, what’s going to happen with the industry is it’s going to be dependent on what that final listing decision says in terms of the critical habitat, the extent of it and the mitigations companies are going to have to engage in in order to satisfy Fish and Wildlife.

David Blackmon [00:11:45] Presumably those mitigations would be more restrictive than what the companies have already been doing under this conservation program they’ve been dealing with for a dozen years. So and again, I just remind everyone that that is an Obama administration conservation program. This is not some Trump thing, okay? It’s not a Bush thing it’s an Obama thing. And now that’s not even good enough for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service so here we are.

Ray Trevino [00:12:17] You know, it blows me away that we really are with a Obama 2.0 administration right now.

David Blackmon [00:12:25] Well, on steroids yeah. I mean, beefed up.

Ray Trevino [00:12:28] Beefed up, Completely beefed up and I feel like and I’ll get off this, but they’re shoving down everything that they were trying to get done in an eight year period and a basically this little 4 year period. And, you know, the hypocrisy here just knows no bounds the fact that, you know, getting back to what she was saying.

Ray Trevino [00:12:49] The fact that wind farms are physically killing endangered animals in the sea and this administration is worried about a plentiful animal in West Texas, where it’s the heart of the American oil and gas industry. And more importantly, it’s the heart of the hundreds of thousands of jobs for Americans.

Ray Trevino [00:13:13] Just the ESG is just the hypocrisy alone and that you both mentioned how we’ve now how ESG has really crippled our economy. Robert Bryce had a great Substack article himself that I think somebody like Dr. Taussig or Dr. Ed Ireland could spend an entire semester at TCU talking about it just this one article, it was called The Energy Transition is it? And how even.

David Blackmon [00:13:42] Oh yeah, that’s a great piece.

Ray Trevino [00:13:43] Yes.

David Blackmon [00:13:44] Actually linked to that. Yeah.

Ray Trevino [00:13:46] We’ve invested, I think, three times as much in ESG investments over the last, you know, 5 to 10 years. And yet we’re still getting 3 to 4 times more output from oil and gas production than we were back then.

Ray Trevino [00:14:03] So it’s like, where’s all this money going? It’s being lost and more importantly, it’s more of a money transfer from us to China for all these subsidies that ESG is people to that’s where the money’s going, that we’re losing i. All these green investments, right?

David Blackmon [00:14:22] Yeah. When we’re talking about the animals that the wind industry kills, we should also talk about the birds, because one of the reasons why the offshore wind farms in the northeast are killer whales is because they are knowingly, consciously being allowed to site them in whale breeding and migration routes for the right whale, the gray whale and other whales whale species out there in South Texas they are knowingly siting these big wind farms and known migration routes for all manner of migratory birds, some of which are endangered, some of which are threatened.

David Blackmon [00:15:02] And and there is absolutely no need whatsoever for this wind generation in south Texas much of it is sat there, languished for over a year, now not being hooked up to the grid because it’s overkill and overkill and several senses of that word. Right?

David Blackmon [00:15:20] And so this is the excesses of the wind industry it’s being allowed because of this religion, of climate alarmism and and the fiction that wind power is somehow a viable replacement for thermal generation here in the state of Texas and other parts of the world and, you know, we’re living in a fantasy land here that is becoming increasingly deadly every day. And at some point, we’ve all got to take a breath and step back and say, you know, kind of reassess what we’re doing here and what we’re doing here with Wind power is not good.

Stuart Turley [00:16:03] Unbelievable, guys.

Ray Trevino [00:16:05] You know, David, you talk about taking a step back, and I almost feel like at this time and I may be going off here, but you are in a different direction and I hope not. But I’m almost wondering if now is not like I know exactly what you’re trying to say is like, we got to stop look at all these policies that we’re making that are supposed to be pro pro-environment.

Ray Trevino [00:16:29] And, you know, we’re there knowingly basically, all the arguments that they’re using against this lizard are the things that they’re overlooking for the birds in south Texas, for the whales and dolphins in the north so that’s where this hypocrisy is.

Ray Trevino [00:16:44] However, with them trying to shut us down, be the 60 day GOP, that this is no joke this is a kind of, you know, ringing the bell type of a deal. It’s like we got to let, you know, share this to let people know, hey, this is what your government is trying to do to your jobs in West Texas.

David Blackmon [00:17:02] Yeah.

Ray Trevino [00:17:02] It’s almost like we can’t we can’t afford to take a step back at the moment like it was my long, round way of saying that. And because it just blows my mind that that’s thousands of hundreds of thousands of jobs that get you know brought to a halt if this all of a sudden this lizard becomes endangered and there’s no need for it to become a page.

David Blackmon [00:17:26] What’s not endangered it’s clearly not an endangered species you know, the whole thing’s so humorous to me, but this is you know, this is just one more listing I’ve written about this lithium mining operation out in Nevada in the middle of a desert there’s no people around there’s few animals around.

David Blackmon [00:17:50] And this is lithium this is not oil and gas it’s not coal it’s it’s a it’s a mine that already exists it’s an old gold mine that they want to go back into because there’s lithium there and in mine, the lithium out of it right there. And and they’ve been trying for now 11 years to get federal permits and state and local permits needed to proceed with this mining operation for the mineral that is most critical to electric vehicles and solar power and to a lesser extent, even the wind industry.

David Blackmon [00:18:26] And it’s been held up now, they’ve they’ve had everything in place except one final permit from from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the same federal agency that’s going to list this lizard now. Because the Center for Biological Diversity, the same radical left wing environmentalist group, obstructionist group that is actually just opposed to all human progress when you actually read their literature, they’ve been holding up this lithium mine for four years now because there’s ten acres of buckwheat, a subspecies of buckwheat that they claim is endangered. They claim only exists out there in the Nevada desert.

David Blackmon [00:19:14] And it’s adjacent to the mining locations, not even on the mining location. It’s adjacent to it. And they’ve been trying to reach an agreement with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for four years now. Yes. And so what we need to understand can happen so what’s happened there is U.S. Fish and Wildlife has already listed the buckwheat under the Endangered Species Act. Yeah. And and they have held up progress on that operation now this company has not been able to get in and do anything a years.

Stuart Turley [00:19:49] Is that buckwheat, a mammal or a reptile?

Ray Trevino [00:19:53] Well, it’s a plant. I mean, the Endangered Species Act applies to everything. I mean, at some at some point, the Center for Biological Diversity, I’m convinced, is going to figure out a way to list cockroaches and dust mites as endangered species, as the most as a way to just impact stop progress on everything. Right. Because, I mean, if you care if you get dust mites and cockroaches listed, the human race is over.

Stuart Turley [00:20:21] Did you say politicians.

David Blackmon [00:20:22] Will be able to do anything?

Stuart Turley [00:20:23] Did you say politicians? I’m sorry.

David Blackmon [00:20:25] Were cockroaches.

Stuart Turley [00:20:26] I cut out for a second.

David Blackmon [00:20:28] Yeah. It sounds the same

Stuart Turley [00:20:29] Politicians.

David Blackmon [00:20:30] It’s like spelling difference.

Stuart Turley [00:20:32] Oh, okay.

David Blackmon [00:20:33] So anyway, you know so this is how the Center for Biological Diversity I have a real grudge against them they. They have banned the most active, radical left wing and I shouldn’t call them environmentalists because they’re not they’re just anti-human group is what they are they’re an anti-human group.

David Blackmon [00:20:56] And for 30 years now, they’ve been abusing the Endangered Species Act to stop all sorts of projects. Any any project that turns dirt highway projects, real estate developments, any form of human progress they have been trying to stop and they’ve been doing it by abusing the Endangered Species Act and this lizard’s just the latest example.

Stuart Turley [00:21:21] Wow.

Ray Trevino [00:21:23] I just Yeah. To me, it’s very concerning that it’s a it’s an age of lawyers, if that makes any sense. And that’s one thing. It’s like, how good are your lawyers versus how good are mine.

David Blackmon [00:21:38] ManI knew I should have gone to law school.

Ray Trevino [00:21:40] Tell me about. I mean, they are they are today’s. I’m going to say it they are today’s gladiators when it comes to a war you know, we can’t fight wars anymore physically. You know, nobody wants to fight the United States heads up anymore. Okay.

Ray Trevino [00:21:56] But I compare to that because these are the ones that are making the policy, the stuff the these politicians have such great groups now that are figuring out how to manipulate and use the United States Constitution to their favor.

Ray Trevino [00:22:13] And, you know, the people are going to school to basically turn the Constitution into their sword, so to speak, and make it work for them. And so it it’s on both sides of this happen. So I’m not going to sit here and say that.

Ray Trevino [00:22:27] But, you know, for them to somebody drew that up, somebody sat there at a bar on you know what? What about this this lizard? Let’s see if we can get that one to become an endangered species. And then we could shut it down and then we can force everybody to go into electric vehicles. Now, we still need diesel to power those generators in some places to get the electricity but let’s do this.

Ray Trevino [00:22:51] They want to control us, guys you know, it’s really scary and how we are moving so fast into the book in 1984 that I saw it the other day that it said make 1984 fiction again, because that’s what that was that was a fictional book not nonfiction means it’s real, you know and so it just it’s just very, very interesting.

Ray Trevino [00:23:16] So, David, I think, you know, you write a lot of pieces and you write amazing stuff. I think today this is one of the most important ones that you have written for the oil and gas industry. It as an operator and as an EMP producer, more importantly, an exploration production company I can’t thank you enough for all that you do to continue to fight for the oil and gas industry so thank you, David.

David Blackmon [00:23:43] Oh, you’re welcome, man this is my life’s work it’s what I do. So, you know, I’m nobody’s getting rich here, but I do it because I believe in it.

Stuart Turley [00:23:53] Well, guys, we got about two more minutes before the producer grabs us. David, what’s coming around the corner this week?

Ray Trevino [00:24:03] Oh, man, you always asked me that and I never know, man. It’s just I wake up in the morning and whatever hits me, you know, whatever the current news is, and.

Stuart Turley [00:24:12] There’s plenty of news out there.

David Blackmon [00:24:14] Stu does some things every damn day it’s just unbelievable. But anyway, I’ve got two stories coming out this week with The Daily CALLER. One should be published later today and a couple with Forbes. And I’ve got to get a piece written for The Petroleum Economist, too. I’ve got a busy week here.

Stuart Turley [00:24:32] Oh. Nice name dropper I love it.

David Blackmon [00:24:36] Hey, I’ve got to drop those names saying please visit my substack.

Stuart Turley [00:24:40] Absolutely by the way, everybody, his substack is phenomenal pay for the upgrade. Okay. Hey, RT What do you got coming around the corner?

Ray Trevino [00:24:52] Well, for. For my show. The truth about I have a But at the time that we’re recording this episode, I have not released a new episode I think in two weeks this will be week number three. So I’ve got to get a few episodes of The Crude Truth I’ve got some great ones with Drew and LeAnn from the North American Petroleum Expo.

Ray Trevino [00:25:13] I’ve got another great one with J.P. War that’ll be coming out, but also with some real other leaks of big heavyweights and Jeff Criminal and Kendra Snow McFadden so very excited about those episodes coming out. Then all my day job because I still know make a living. I should be hopefully drilling wells later this month in July, and so I’ll be definitely doing that so who knows, maybe the next few weeks will do an episode and I’ll be out on location we’ll see.

Stuart Turley [00:25:45] All right. Hey, Well, I’ll tell you what, I appreciate both of you. And for all the folks that are out there that are listening to our podcast, we appreciate you we’re in about 40 different countries right now, So, hey, appreciate everybody we’ll see you again next week. Thanks.

David Blackmon [00:26:03] Adios.

Ray Trevino [00:26:03] Adios.





3 podcaster walk into a bar, David Blackmon, RT Trevino, Stu Turley

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